Ads vs no Ads

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vas, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Vas Origin

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Message Count:
    770
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    500
    Hey guys. In light of all the emails we are getting from the advertising companies, I wanted to ask everyone a question. As some of you might know, there are ways to introduce advertising into live wallpapers. These ads may appear via push notifications and icon ads on the desktop.

    We haven't experimented with ads in our live wallpapers, but we considered the option of adding this feature into LWC. However, LWC is primarily a wallpaper creation software. Monetizing free live wallpapers may seem lucrative, but we would be running the risk of saturating the market with low quality live wallpapers. I fear that people that simply want an easy way to make money, may use LWC to mass produce live wallpapers for the sake of getting as much advertising out as possible.

    At the same time, we want to provide our users with as big of an arsenal of tools as possible. The Android Market has a user base that seemingly expects free content more so than paid. Advertising may be very profitable for talented and successful live wallpaper designers.

    It's a bit of a dilemma for us. Hopefully, with your feedback we can figure out the best solution for everyone involved :)

    Please post what you think!
  2. RyanXVII New Guy

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Message Count:
    54
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think you said it best,

    "Monetizing free live wallpapers may seem lucrative, but we would be running the risk of saturating the market with low quality live wallpapers. I fear that people that simply want an easy way to make money may use LWC to mass produce live wallpapers for the sake of getting as much advertising out as possible."

    even though there can be benefits from this, lets say this community grows and grows and grows, that's a lot of saturating going on within the droid marketplace and i think it would just enrage many people in the end, and severly give "LWC" a bad rep being this software was the root of the evil, if I'm making any sense.

    but let's say that the above (in a perfect world) wouldn't happen, I still don't think I'd do Ads for LWP's free or paid, for me... LWP's are a huge part of someone's droid, there's no way i would want to anger them with ads or annoying pop ups so then they purchase the paid version or something. For me reputation is everything, loyalty and service to customers goes a long way and 1 small mistake can sometimes cause a riot and tarnish your rep in a day because of 1 wrong decision. to me, making LWP's "can" be a profitable thing for sure, but for me it's more enjoyable and rewarding seeing my artwork praised and people are happy with it to begin with over prioritizing profits to begin with, which in the beginning will drive me to make more and more quality LWP's while building a good rep for myself and eventually the rewards should hopefully find it's own way to me.

    of course this is my opinion only, i support however you guys decide to choose, it's your business and software, do what's in your best interest :)
    in fact i whole heartedly respect the fact that you even would ask the community of their opinion first on something like this, that's great! not many places would even care lol.
  3. Dwayne Keeps coming back

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Message Count:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    10
    I don't think putting adds in livewallpapers would be a good thing. I wouldn't want advetisements on my main screen, Realistate is alredy at a premiem on my screen with my clock,and icon links. I think the best wallpaper would be a non intruseve one. Its there on demand if you want to play it or just go about your buisness. Say for instance I am in a line and am getting board. I pull out my phone and entertain myself with my livewallpaper game. Why? Because it is fast and conveinet. I don't have to load it and I can shut it down just as quickly. I want to have a quick work place distracion, get phone out play it and just as quick go back to work.;) This is what I feel is the attracion of a livewallpaper. I have made 8 livewallpapers and published them. Two are free and I charge for the rest. The free ones I have not put any advertisment in, this is the honey to catch the flies. Then they see the paid ones and they buy them if they like them. I haven't made a ton of money but I have almost made my inital investment back. This is a really good program, Please don't ruin a good thing. If you want to look at my wallpapers go to the android market and type in Miller Tech. Any feedback is welcome for them. I do have to say that I have done a ton of research on the internet about how to make apps and wallpapers and it is not an easy thing to do, every one tells differant ways to do it , and it is very complicated to do simple programs. That is why I chose this program, it is user freindly with a ton of potential.
    Thanks :)
  4. Vas Origin

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Message Count:
    770
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    500
    Thanks for your input guys. We'll keep the thread open, as I'm sure this question will resurface in the future.

    Cool live wallpapers, Dwayne! :)
  5. Dwayne Keeps coming back

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Message Count:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    10
    Thank you, I couldn't have done it with out your program. It is professional and easy to use.:)
    Vas likes this.
  6. wiseguy New Guy

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Message Count:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I for one would personally love the option to show ads. There's a number of networks out there that allow you to monetize your apps. Can this be done now, or does it have to be built into the creation software for it to work?
  7. Jerry-me New Guy

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Message Count:
    85
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You can get some basic information on who installs your app based on device, region, language and OS version on you publish portal in the android market but it only shows active installs and not previous installs.
  8. Vas Origin

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Message Count:
    770
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    500
    There is no way of doing it now. It needs to be implemented into the software, hence the discussion.
  9. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Ads need to be incorporated into the next update release of Live Wallpaper creator. While I fully understand your rational behind not wanting to over saturate the market with garbage, I believe that one, the market is saturated already, and two, ads only pay the developer based on how many times they are viewed, and they keep track of that. Meaning if an app developer releases ad heavy crap, people will uninstall it, and the developer makes zero. Then the user leaves a bad review, no one else downloads from that developer any more, and the system regulates itself. The android market also displays apps in order of most popular and best rated, so crap apps don't even show up in traditional searches, you have to really dig for them. The market is also already saturated with bad apps, from shady developers who want nothing to do but sell ads, so not implementing ads into LVC to "save the market" is like beating a dead horse. The only thing ads will do for lvc developers is allow them to explore more options of making money from their work. It is impossible to sell apps made with lvc creator when compared to lvp titans like Kittehface Software or other huge developers. However people still download apps made in lvc creator in huge amounts when they are free. I conducted an experiment where I created a really sweet animation of clouds rolling through a mountain, and then listed it for 99cents on the market. Three wakes later: 0 downloads. The next day I released the free version and broke 1000 downloads in five days. If that app had adds, I would have made money on it, and also the adds could have been used as a persuasive tool to make people upgrade to the paid, add free version. It would have been a win, win for all, a quality live wallpaper for the users, and some extra money for me. I was reading the above comments and noticed that RyanXVII opposes adds because he doesn't want to saturate the market, which its cool with me, his decision is his decision. But when I go to his store front his apps are begging you to donate to him so he could "pay off student loans" and then he has to totally separate page, with the same app, where you can do that. That, to me, is pathetic, and completely crushes his credibility as a seller, AND that is the definition of saturating the market. If RyanXVII had adds in his lwp's then he wouldn't need those desperate pleas for help. And Ryan, its not donating, donating is what you do for charity, what you want is for people to give you money for nothing, which no one will do. Returning to my original point adds are super important for lwc to have. And Vas, with this option your marketing pitch increases 100 fold. Think of how many more programs you could sell if users could make money in every aspect of the lwp process. Its a win, win for all. However, like RyanXVII said, its your program, your business, and your decision. But personally I wouldnt worry about the self regulating android market, I'd just worry about the developers you support, and how much more money you could make. Also, please respond to a question I put in the support area, because until lwc can include adds, I was wondering how to add them in myself.

    -Thanks for reading, I know it was a novel.
    -Sam
  10. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Change lvc to lwp. It was a key board error.
  11. Jerry-me New Guy

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Message Count:
    85
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I’m quite indifferent about the ad VS no ad issue but I do suggest we make a poll and someone do some test with a few mainstream wallpapers and see the download and install percentage.

    The main danger with ads is that you might have a chance of getting more profits depending what you do but you might get a bad stigmata and get a very low install rate especially if it’s going to show up a lot or the arguments from above.

    Does anyone know any live wallpaper with ads in them so we can support the debate?
  12. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Yes I do know of live wallpapers with ads, I don't know them off the top of my head, but the ad placement is very tasteful. Its not in your face like a traditional app, because lwp's are not apps in the traditional sense. The ads that I encountered in live wallpapers were placed in the settings menu of the wallpaper. Meaning the only way you were going to see the ad was if you tried to access the settings, and 9 out 10 times the settings menu just said to upgrade to the free version (in addition to the ad). So theoretically, a user would never even have to see an ad if they just stayed out of the settings menu, and in free version lwps (the only place where I would put ads) settings menus do not serve any purpose above referring you to a paid version. So the developer still gets income from the ads, and the user is not inconvenienced by them. I'll post the link to the lwp that does that when I bump into it again. Search for yourself though, dont take my word for it. I even took it a step further and emailed a developer asking him his daily income on a free version with a menu ad. He said he received about $80.00 a day. Which is pretty sweet. I believe the developers name was "Scenic Android".

    So imagine, lwc's new 2.5 update, could potentially give you the power to make $80.00 & up depending on how good your lwp is. And with all the new tools Vas says is going to in 2.5, the wallpapers will improve and become more competitive on the market, lwc's developer designs will get better, and (if ads are added) developers can use these tools to make a living for themselves. And then EVERYONE will want to get lwc, making Vas super rich, and giving the developers he supports stable, consistent income. Its a super win. Why wouldn't you want ads in 2.5, its a no brainer. Better then begging for donations...
  13. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Theoretically, the menu is the easiest place to put ads in a lwp. All Vas would have to is create a folder to put in the ad mob jdk files that will display the ads for the app. Then when lwc compiles the menu for the lwp, it could ad the folder into its manifest, and display the ads like it would a button or menu option. Ads could def be integrated into lwc before 2.5's scheduled release. It would make another great tool to ad to the program, and give even more of a justification for the $20.00 price increase. Because if I was a prospective buyer, and knew that I could potentially pay down my initial costs to get lwc using ads, I would buy lwc without thinking about it. And a lot of other people would too. I mean, for all we know, Vas could even advertise lwc in ads that are displayed in live wallpapers created by his own program! Talk about full circle! The benefits are endless!
  14. Vas Origin

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Message Count:
    770
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    500
    This is an interesting discussion! Support for adding ads will likely be introduced into LWC. The question is when. We still need to think this through very carefully, and the effect it may have on the Market. Anyway, you all make very interesting points. If you have something else to add, please post away (just keep it civil).
  15. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    That's fantastic that your on board with the ads Vas! As for when to introduce them into lwc I believe that ads should be incorporated into lwc 2.5's release. There's relatively little work that you would have to do on that because all the ads information and programming comes pre-built from admob in a neat little jdk file that just needs to be dropped into the project. All you would have to do is modify lwc so when it compiles the setting's menu for the lwp, it incorporates the admob jdk file into it. Then just have a folder (like the equivalent of the items folder) where the admob jdk file can be placed, and presto!

    I'm still not following you on what you mean when you say "the effect on the market". The android market is a self regulating being which watches over itself. Bad apps are not downloaded and poorly rated, so they never turn up in searches. If you want a bad app, you need to specifically search for a developers name. So the idea of over saturating the market with garbage, seems a bit unfounded, because the market regulates itself, and what ever it misses, Google cleans up. Bad apps are shunned, good apps are rewarded, that's how it works.

    However, if you want to regulate aspects of the market with lwc, you could make it so ads are only present in the free versions of live wallpapers. The settings menu's for free and paid versions are different in lwc, so I'm assuming that they are compiled differently. So for the settings menu in the free version, just have it compile in the admob jdk file from a folder where the developer could place in jdk file. It could be like how the "items" folder works now, you drop in your data, and then it all gets compiled into the wallpaper. But instead of compiling images into the lwp, ads are compiled into the settings menu of the free version. That way, everyone wins, you get your way about market regulation, and the customers of that ad only experience the ad when they open up the settings menu (which is worthless in the free versions). Its like what everyone else is doing already, and it would be a fantastic addition to lwc.
  16. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Also ads in free versions would be a good persuasive tool to get people to upgrade to ad free paid versions. That way developer reputation is protected, and paid apps could see more download traffic. Essentially, developers using lwc could make money in every aspect of the lwp process. That, Vas, would make you look amazing, and everyone would want to get lwc. You would probly become very wealthy almost overnight. And as I said before, you would even be able to advertize in lwp created by your program! Thats some real full circle economics rights now. This program, your company, the ideas and creativity lwc fosters, are a gold mine, waiting to be unleashed. Unleash it Vas, unleash it lwc 2.5...
  17. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    I just wanted to add another point encase your still on the fence about adding ads into lwc 2.5, Vas. Right now you have the luxury of waiting and attempting to regulate the market with your program because your the only game in town. Your program (as far as I know) is the only one on the market that does what it does, so developers who want in on the lwp game have to come to you. However, how long do you think it'll take before someone else gets an idea for a program like this, finds you through market research, reads these threads, and thinks they can make a better program, with ads, and then does it. Now developers will be able to make serious money with the other program instead of yours, and your business will be seriously damaged as you struggle to change lwc in light of the new competition. Even if their program is not as good as yours, as long as people can make more money, they will buy the competitors lwc over yours. I get that your trying to be careful and tip toe around this whole thing, and I respect that. But the fact of the matter is, the android market needs no "special care" (refer to my points above), and all this waiting game over ad integration is doing is tying your developers hands behind their backs and making your company open to fierce competition. And then, once someone does create a similar program that has ad integration, all your community here, all your good intentions, all your good ideas, all your control, your company, even this discussion will become meaningless and cease to exist. You guys are good people, and I'm loving this community, but you guys need to get competitive so all of this can remain for the future. If you make your program the one stop shop, to create, sell, advertise, and make money: your business will explode, everyone will come to you for lwp creation, you will assert yourself as the dominant leader in this field forever, and no competition will ever be able to touch you. You will quickly become, and remain very wealthy and your business will become and remain extremely successful.
  18. Vas Origin

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Message Count:
    770
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    500
    I appreciate your kind words, but it's not that I'm on the fence about adding ads, it's just not as easy as you paint it to be. There are other factors in play; some are less obvious than others. Rest assured, that with our ideas and execution combined with our users' valuable input, our team will find the perfect solution for Live Wallpaper Creator. :)
  19. stollo770 LWC Major

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Message Count:
    236
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    200
    I understand that lwc is a complicated program, and that programming it to accept ads is a complicated process. I just wanted to make sure that you understood all the benefits that adding ad support in lwc 2.5 would have for everyone. You’re a very intelligent man Vas, with one awesome program, so I’m sure everything that will be in lwc 2.5 will be fantastic, and that you’re working hard on more features. I just hope that you can find a way to incorporate ads into lwc 2.5 before you release it.
  20. Jerry-me New Guy

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Message Count:
    85
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    80% chance in won’t be in 2.5 mostly because I think they finalized the features that’ll be in 2.5 in late January mostly due to the fact on the 4th they made this and a suggestion thread to get some feedback before they finalize their plans for the 2.5 update. Based on Vas post it looks like they are planning on adding it it’s just mostly likely in the brainstorming/very early planning stages and it might be a while before we have it but I do think your post might have bumped the priority up a bit on the ads which is good for a lot of users.

Share This Page